Angel Oven Records

Thursday, September 30th, 2010

Hails and Horns: White Moth Interview

Interview with frontman and band mastermind R. Loren
By Chad Bowar

PYRAMIDS mainman R. Loren has two new solo projects, WHITE MOTH and SAILORS WITH WAX WINGS. Each project has numerous guest musicians, and a different sound and vibe. Guests on the WHITE MOTH self-titled album include Colin Marston (KRALLICE), Sam Hillmer (ZS), Lydia Lunch, Dlek, Alec Empire (ATARI TEENAGE RIOT), Shelby Cinca (FRODUS), John Gossard (WEAKLING, ASUNDER), and Chet W. Scott (BLOOD OF THE BLACK OWL). Collarborators on SAILORS WITH WAX WINGS include Aaron Stainthorpe (MY DYING BRIDE), Jonas Renkse (KATATONIA), David Tibet (CURRENT 93), Ted Parsons (SWANS, JESU, GODFLESH), Simon Scott (SLOWDIVE), Aidan Baker (NADJA), Vern Rumsey (UNWOUND) and Dominick Fernow (COLD CAVE, PRURIENT). Loren fills us in on these bands along with what PYRAMIDS is up to.

How did you go about putting together the guest musicians for the WHITE MOTH and SAILORS WITH WAX WINGS albums?

All clichés aside, both sprouted in a way parallel to the growth of a plant: a seed /the idea (in the case of SWWW it was a hallucinatory encounter with the dead poet Stephen Crane, and with WHITE MOTH it was the result of a seed that had germinated over the span of a fifteen year spiritual journey with the moth), the rooting of the seed, which in both cases was for me to orchestrate a short list of musicians that would collaborate to produce the precise sound envisioned during the previous stage (a list made up of friends, acquaintances, and others I study and admire), and finally, in a process much like photosynthesis, the lists of musicians would shift and sway as the instrumentation began to synthesize and take shape, since some I might originally have thought the perfect contributors might not be a good fit after a given shift in the recording process. I had an exchange with each musician that addressed all questions and concerns until each of us were comfortably invested in the vision, at which point each artist was free to layer in their texture within the overarching parameters discussed in the exchange.

How would you describe the difference in sound between the two projects?

The projects are vastly different. SWWW is very spatial, relying on slower tempos, and a male-female hushed vocal dynamic, all resting in layers of ambient texture. WHITE MOTH falls into the digital hardcore tradition, with an electronic foundation, driven guitars, and a shoutier vocal style. Both recordings are extremely dense, and both reach similar levels of intensity using totally different vehicles.

What inspired the band names?

With SAILORS WITH WAX WINGS, a fleeting phrase on a Vast Aire record, coupled with my fascination with the Daedalus and Icarus myth. WHITE MOTH was not chosen, it was given by the moth itself.

How difficult were the logistics of working with so many different people?

The process was extremely difficult, and literally landed me in the emergency room. The layers in each recording are so dense and the collectives so international in scope, that there was much patience required on my part, and hundreds of emails exchanged, all with a day job and a family, and a million other responsibilities that plague adult life and demand my time. I started having panic attacks toward the end, and thought I was going to die at one point. It is painful to describe this part of the process because I realize how much this all fits into the troubled artist archetype, but I feel so connected to the music when I take on a project, let alone two of this magnitude, that I am physically affected and transformed in the process, and am not the same after it is complete.

Was everything recorded in your presence, or did some contribute remotely?

A great majority recorded remotely, in the place he or she felt most comfortable. We would brainstorm together, and I would provide each artist with an appreciation for the overarching vision, and they would add their layer onto the existing fabric. Part of why this works is that each of these musicians were handpicked by me because of a particular skill or sound that I feel would mesh perfectly with the others, so I had no issue at all with giving them freedom to do what they do best.

Did the guests help with the songwriting process?

The songs took shape organically, free of any bickering that leads to compromise which leads to mediocre songwriting. The vision was formed, the players chosen, the shape began, the players were altered as the songs rooted in unexpected directions, rinse, repeat.

What was Colin Marston's role?

Colin was essential to the process on both albums. The SWWW record, in particular, was rolling out in a very static way that lacked dynamics, and therefore lacked emotion. This brought on a tiny bit of frustration, because the album was sharply straying from the original vision. Colin added guitars pretty far into the process that single-handedly brought the record back on track with the intended vision, and added the dynamics and emotion necessary to bring the record to life. I gave Colin free reign on the mixing, more or less. I understand that it is his area of expertise and the best result would be achieved if he had that freedom.

Just think of how many sports teams suffer when the one-track-business-minded-owners get involved. True, the musician knows what they want to hear, but too often the person mixing is not allowed to mix correctly because the artist who is better at writing songs than mixing, gets too caught up in raising levels of things they think are important, when in reality those decisions make no sense at all to the sonic fabric. Colin is a genius, and responsible at the same time. That is a very rare find. If one is lucky enough to know a genius of any kind, chances are that genius is crazy and lacks basic communication etiquette. Colin's creativity is tantamount to his professionalism.

Were there any thoughts of spacing the release dates instead of releasing them a week apart?

This was definitely something I thought over. In the end, I feel there are a few groups of people: those who will buy both, those who won't buy either, those who will download both, those that like electronic music but hate the style of SWWW, and those that like SWWW but hate electronic music. In all of those scenarios, the records could come out on the same day and be unaffected, in my opinion.

How did you hook up with Angel Oven Records?

A mutual friend and co-conspirator in PYRAMIDS introduced me to them. The label is very new still, and these records are their first two releases. They have been nothing but supportive, and are driven by a unique philosophy that drives the artist through motivation.

Any plans for live shows with either project?

I am not interested in revealing these projects in a live setting unless we could do it with 100 percent of the personnel on stage. Any other downsized version of the projects would be cheap and unfair to the sound. Maybe someday someone will facilitate the endeavor of gathering us all to make it happen.

What's PYRAMIDS been up to lately?

We are finishing up work on three releases before starting our next proper full length. The next thing out of the pipeline is a collaboration with WRAITHS that we have been recording for nearly two years. The other two are splits with MAMIFFER and HORSEBACK.

Tuesday, September 14th, 2010

Brooklyn Vegan Interview

An interview with R. Loren of White Moth
by BBG

R. Loren of Pyramids has friends, and lots of 'em. The Texas experimentalist seemingly employed them all to contribute to a pair of self-titled releases due at the beginning of October: White Moth and Sailors With Wax Wings. Both are new solo projects with new albums.

Sailors With Wax Wings, due on 10/5 via Angel Oven, features greats like David Tibet (Current 93), Ted Parsons (Swans, Jesu, Godflesh), Simon Scott (Slowdive), Aidan Baker (Nadja), Vern Rumsey (Unwound), Dominick Fernow (Hospital Productions, Cold Cave, Prurient), Aaron Stainthorpe (My Dying Bride), Jonas Renkse (Katatonia), Marissa Nadler, and others to its eight tracks, adding in co-production/mixing from Colin Marston (Krallice, etc) and mastering from James Plotkin (Khanate). The LP touches on elements of black metal, ambient, and shoegaze on tracks like the currently streamable "If I Should Cast Off This Tattered Coat" and "And Clash And Clash Of Hoof And Heel", the video of which is viewable below.

Loren's second, White Moth, will hit stores one week later (preorder here). The project, which he describes as milemarker towards "the resurgence of digital hardcore", moves in a somewhat different direction but employs the same collaborative spirit; the LP features Colin Marston (Krallice), Sam Hillmer (Zs), Lydia Lunch, Dälek, Alec Empire (Atari Teenage Riot), Shelby Cinca (Frodus), John Gossard (Weakling, Asunder), and Chet W. Scott (Blood Of The Black Owl, Glass Throat Records).

We had a quick chat with R.Loren of White Moth/Sailors With Wax Wings/Pyramids to discuss the genesis of the projects, and whether we will ever see the pieces in a live setting. The results are also below…

The lineup of contributors on White Moth and SWWW are impressive to say the least. How did you hook up with some of the artists, in particular, how did you hook up with the contributors for the track above?

R. Loren: Thanks. When something extraordinary affects me in my day-to-day life, I often will translate the experience into what I envision as a fabric of sound. This fabric, like any visual work, utilizes specific elements such as color, texture, and thread quality, to coalesce into the overall work and speak to an overarching meaning. The best place I know to start, like with any project one might take on at home, work, or school, is by gathering the best equipment—the best thread, for the intended result. These would be the artists that fuel my personal passion to create, the ones who inspire my own art. So, some are past acquiantances, others friends, and a few I have never met but have studied, and I approach them with my ideas for the project and field their questions and concerns until we have become both invested in the initial vision. As this visions takes shape, some artists that I originally would have wanted involved, simply would not be a good fit for the sound, and others will drop into that place. These projects were at no time subscribing to be "supergroups," rather, they are precise collectives with a precise vision that only a select few could come together to accomplish.

SAILORS WITH WAX WINGS "And Clash And Clash Of Hoof And Heel"

Were the two records created simultaneously and then segmented later, or was the concept solidified prior as wholly separate entities?

Both records were recorded simultaneously, each with their own separate catalysts and vision. It wore me out physically and mentally to orchestrate such a vast and international cast of collaborators. I am thankful to have Colin Marston involved, who is one of the very few I can both call genius, and responsible.

How much of White Moth was determined by the direction of the material versus a wholly collaborative effort with the guest? "This song would sound great with John Gossard" vs working together with the artist.

The process is unique in that every step began with me saying "This person would be great here" right down to the second in any given song. As the songs took shape, I could hear certain people with very particular sounds at certain parts. Lyrically, I communicated overarching themes to various artists to keep the content from becoming too fragmented, but the lyrics themselves were up to each guest; same thing with those that contributed to the instrumentation.

What has been going down with Pyramids, post-Nadja collabo that is?

We are finishing up a two year long collaboration with the Scottish duo Wraiths, which should be really dark and unlike anything we have previously done. We are also finishing up material this month for a split with Mamiffer, and another with Horseback. Next month, we will begin tracking the next Pyramids proper full length.

Considering the formidable guesting and disregarding the associated logistics, is there any interest to taking the White Moth material to the live stage? What about Pyramids?

I have this constant fear of letting people down when it comes to live performance. Though realistically we could absolutely pull it off in all of the aforementioned cases, still, I remember seeing some of my favorite bands and in a post show catharsis, selling back their CDs because of horrific live experiences. Still, I believe we may just see something here in the future…

Where has inspiration come from as of late?

Current 93, Celestiial, Menace Ruine, Daughters, Xasthur, James Blackshaw, Blood Of The Black Owl, Horseback, Liars, Silver Mt. Zion, and Ides Of Gemini are doing some interesting things as well…